NH's FIRST COLLAB!

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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by AutoTank on Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:47 pm

Sounds awesome Smile. But this is getting more and more complicated as it goes along. Which is going against what we originally believed.
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by BluMess on Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:50 pm

That's just what I thought.

I think we should keep this simple - have some basic ghost-like powers (e.g. floating, passing through certain materials) but keep the objective quite obvious. Otherwise the player won't know what to do.

You could keep the gust of wind idea, but it's triggered by turning on a fan or something more related to the level - this would keep the controls easy to use

To keep it simple, I think we should do it in a similar way to Fable - you gradually get more good / evil depending on how you carry out a level. Maybe being good gives you one ability, while being evil gives you another, making the game replayable
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by BluMess on Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:52 pm

The more complex parts of the game would relate to the level design, making it challenging and maybe we could throw in a few collectable items, such as coins or army medals
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by AutoTank on Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:52 pm

I think we should scrap the sniper idea, and go with a full thing with the ghost powers and stuff.



Smile. Its not nearly finished as you can see, thats not the full drawing + it needs to be shaded and details need to be added, but I just felt like posting it.
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by BluMess on Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:56 pm

Sounds good Smile
So, we're settled on the basic gameplay?
Platformer / shoot 'em up, based around a ghost looking for vengeance. He can choose to become good or evil as he progresses


That character is amazing, he looks determined and agile.
One thing I'd comment on is his ears - maybe we could put them a little lower or scrap them?
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by AutoTank on Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:57 pm

Yeah I think thats settled with the gameplay Smile.

About the ears, I didn't notice it. I'll change it now.
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by kaolin on Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:17 pm

Hmm. I really don't like the moralistic good/evil thing--I liked the physical/ethereal thing. I think it fits the context better and is more natural than adding good/evil to what's going on...

collectables--how about pieces of heart? ((your wife's heart and yours--different effects?))

As far as things getting too complicated, I didn't think they were--but maybe I was offloading the difficulty on the level designers? Very basic story with a twist, fairly standard gameplay with a twist... Smile
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by AutoTank on Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:21 pm

Collectables, the souls of the people you kill? I'd rather have the physical/ethereal thing too.
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by BluMess on Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:22 pm

I think you were just putting in too many different moves personally Wink But does the ghost hold weapons or not? I'm a bit confused about that :S

I meant the physical/ethereal thing, I just forgot how it's spelt lol
The difficulty on the level designers just depends on how easy it is for us to make levels without delving into the script a huge amount Very Happy
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by kaolin on Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:22 pm

AutoTank wrote:Collectables, the souls of the people you kill? I'd rather have the physical/ethereal thing too.

Ooh, yes. Much better! :)
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by kaolin on Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:36 pm

BluMess wrote:I think you were just putting in too many different moves personally ;) But does the ghost hold weapons or not? I'm a bit confused about that :S

:heheh: Good point--I wasn't thinking too much about the moves as a whole, more just putting stuff on the table to see what stuck. :)

Maybe we could stick to one "attack"; I like the emotional impact of him getting his fatigues and gun off the bat; but the gun being ethereal to start with, it uses his life-force to fire. But if he goes the physical route, he can pick up bullets for it and use those instead.

just to have some names for things (these can and probably should change)--five possible "levels" of ethereality:

[ul]
* poltergeist -- strong/fast ethereal
* specter -- weak/fast ethereal
* ghost -- weak/slow ethereal <-- this is where you start
* zombie -- weak/slow physical
* ghoul -- strong/fast physical
[/ul]

Any of them would be able to use ethereal bullets, but the zombie/ghoul ethereal bullets would be especially weak. only ghosts/specters/poltergeists would be able to float/walk through things. It would cost essence/health (or souls?) to shift from one state to another. Completing a level in one state unlocks the two states adjacent? Or maybe every N levels, depending.

level design... we'll most likely have to make a level builder.

We should also make a development timeline to stick to... something possible but not spread out so far that we get distracted by other things. I'm thinking maybe two months to have the game in place with the first level or two, some placeholder graphics, ... from there the game mechanics and graphics could be tweaked while more levels are being developed for another month, maybe?

((also, we should talk revenue split ;) this is going to make us all rich, right? ;) ))
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by BluMess on Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:44 pm

((also, we should talk revenue split Wink this is going to make us all rich, right? Wink ))

Of course Very Happy We can make a join mochi-ads account and split it on paypal or something similar

Maybe we can have a timeline in the top-right corner and every time you do an act which relates to physical, the marker will decrease and after you get to a certain point, you'll become that status. The opposite for ethereal Smile

Well if we're going for a development plan, the graphics designers will have to work with you to make a level builder - I'll help with anything you need me for. Then we can quickly make more levels.

We'll also need an intro movie, so maybe artists and animators can sort that one out?
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by BluMess on Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:01 pm

Hey I made a little intro movie plan

Flash Storyboard swf
Flash Storyboard fla

Take a look at it, see what you think Smile

Edit: I'm off for now, hope Jack doesn't notice I'm sleepi- working very hard. Thanks for your ideas everyone, this is sounding great Very Happy


Last edited by BluMess on Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Are you questioning my authority, forum? I made you, don't ask ME why I edited this! Can't you read? I tihnk you'd better stand aginst the wall for 2 hours. Yep. Go on, crawl back into your hole, silly thing!)
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by AutoTank on Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:19 pm

Last edited by BluMess on Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:12 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Are you questioning my authority, forum? I made you, don't ask ME why I edited this! Can't you read? I tihnk you'd better stand aginst the wall for 2 hours. Yep. Go on, crawl back into your hole, silly thing!)

I laughed at that Very Happy.

Anyway, looks fine to me(the storyboard), but we have no-one to animate it. Do you know when that guy from NG is coming over? I searched that guy on NG, and he made the assumption song(I think that animation is epic)!

Oh and, G'night Chris.


Last edited by AutoTank on Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I made these forums too y'know, go back to your wall dumbass!)
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by kaolin on Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:25 pm

Storyboard looks cool, though I really think we shouldn't give the whole story away at the beginning. I think, even if the player doesn't have to search for clues and figure out what's going on, the story should be doled out level to level. kill mob goons, rescue wife. maybe figure out along the way that you don't really want to rescue her. maybe even have that choice at the end--kill her yourself, free her, leave her there in the middle of all the carnage...

I _can_ do animation/whatnot if it comes to it. I'm just really not the best, nor very experienced at it. Smile


Soon You Will Be Gone, and Possibly Eaten (my mic setup was kind of screwed :/ )
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by AutoTank on Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:31 pm

old version:
New version:

I'm thinking the same thing Kaolin. Maybe leaving them in the dark about the whole affair thing. All Edgar knows is that Al is the one who commanded the mob to kill him. Not the reason why. A level of mystery is always needed ^_^. It keeps a person interested.
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by kaolin on Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:35 pm

I'm thinking he has to work up to figuring out that Al ordered the hit. Starts out he's only got that he was killed... then who killed him, but not why, and he has to work his way up. :) I figure he'll get some clues at his house. I suppose we can do more story work nowabouts. I'm going to be disappearing for half a week. Don't get too far ahead of me ;) [[edited: I'm going to be disappearing!]]

art--I like the flair of the feather on his shoulder. :)


Last edited by kaolin on Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by AutoTank on Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:48 pm

Well, I don't think we should be keeping people in the dark too much with this, then it will just confuse people, but a little mystery wouldn't hurt.

Thanks by the way Smile.
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by kaolin on Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:59 pm

AutoTank wrote:Well, I don't think we should be keeping people in the dark too much with this, then it will just confuse people, but a little mystery wouldn't hurt.

"Somebody killed you, you have to find out what and why" is a pretty common approach to things, I think. People are used to that. :) "You're a ghost" isn't too much more on top of that, though giving in-game instructions as you reach various points in a level to explain what you can and can't do is probably good. :) And more when other things are unlocked in other levels (like first time you can start phase-shifting).

We've got:

level 1 -- get the thugs that killed you

I'd propose, just to have something more concrete to talk about:

level 2 -- go home (or this might just be a cutscene?)

level 3 --stake out a restaurant and then track some mob guys back to their clubhouse

level 4 -- rinse, repeat ;) until we get to ....

the compound -- several levels?

level the last -- confront Alfonse (I'm kinda picturing him as the Don)

cutscene: confront your wife (maybe something to play through, but probably best not?)

Not sure what other types of levels we could have in the rinse, repeat... (or really, what more story we could toss in). It's feeling kind mario-ish, now, with the wrong princess at every castle ;)
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by AutoTank on Sat Dec 27, 2008 5:40 pm

Fair enough, sounds good. I'm writing out a proper storyline now by the way Smile. Its looking good.
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by AutoTank on Sat Dec 27, 2008 6:04 pm

You take on the role of Edgar, Lieutenant in the Generation Army, the fighting force of the royal empire. Edgar is part of the special fighting force named AIM, a group of fighters of the highest caliber. They are at war with the neighboring nation. Unknown to him, back in his hometown, his wife, ella, is having an affair, with a man named Al. The victory is won by the hands of the Royal Empire and Edgar makes his way back home. Things continue as they would normally for Edgar, Ella is afraid to tell him of her affair.

Edgar is walking down the street one day, when a group of men surround him with baseball bats and knuckle dusters. Even with Edgar's strength, he is overpowered by the amass of men and is killed. He can feel himself floating out of his body, the men still beating his dead body. Rage builds inside him, but he can only watch, a shining cord keeping him at the scene. The men eventually leave and the cord snaps and power floods into him, pure rage empowering his entire body. He raises his hand and a gust of wind forms into a sphere on top it, an evil grin shines across his dark face.

He travels home through various alleyways and streets to catch up with his killers. Through the power they can see him and try to fight him, but to no avail. All but one are dead and he picks him up by the scruff of his collar. He wants some answers. He finds out who these people are, they were part of the mob...

The lifeless warrior travels around searching for clues as to why the mob killed him. He travels back to his home and finds a letter on the table saying "He has been dealt with -Al". He didn't know who this Al was, but he knew what he wanted to do to him. He deduced from the fact that the mob were the ones that attacked him, that Al was the leader of the mob.

He eventually, after extensive research, finds a restaurant Al would be attending to that very night. He sits outside, waiting, and watching. He tracks them after they leave to there hideout, where he kills many of the mob and eventually kills al himself. During the massacre, Al tells Edgar about there affair, he realises he doesn't love his wife anymore, and after the fight, he can finally rest in peace.
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by Vartagh on Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:41 pm

hi guys...
you seems to be FULL of ideas...
let me say something about gameplay and code complexity....
we need to do a good work but with a reasonable difficulty in coding...
we can't pretend to do 100k lines of code :p
so what i think about ethereal/physical is that to help developers in coding we could use a 2 states or 3 states of the main characters.
they could be
2 modes:
1) physical -> no pass-walls , take damage , can use weapons and items.
2) ethereal -> can pass walls , take no damage , avoid bullets , can't touch things

3 modes:
1) physical -> no pass-walls , take damage , can use weapons and items, can open doors , use switches.
2) partially ethereal -> no pass-walls , take PARTIAL damage , can use LIGHT weapons and LIGHT items, can open doors ,can use switches (maybe not all).
3) ethereal -> can pass walls , take no damage , avoid bullets , can't touch things

another good thing to add is that in ethereal form you lose health cause you are returning to heaven !!!
in partially ethereal you lose health but slower Smile
so to avoid players staying always in ether form.... this will add a layer of complexity to gameplay very good to players! =)


now 2 words about our revenue....
are we looking for a sponsor or we will simply put a mochiads and split revenue ?
If you need some contacts later for publishing i'm very connected with the major portals.... so we can surely publish on mindjolt and get a lot of views...
Smile
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by kaolin on Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:54 pm

mindjolt accepts anything halfway decent, yeah? Smile

I'd say let's judge it on how the game turns out, but letting it sit on flashgamelicense for a month or two would be reasonable, probably.

As a developer, I was thinking the two modes (ethereal or physical) would be gameplay effects, but the variations from there would just be modifications to player speed/health, pretty straight-forward stuff. The only worry I was really seeing with having five modes of instantiation would be the art, unless we just used an aura and transparency or something like that to represent the differences.

(nice to meet you, btw Smile )

I was thinking that since doing things in ethereal form costs you essence, that would be the detriment to staying in that form (as opposed to essentially adding a timer to the form). But that could just be a gameplay tweak. Smile

Do you have a codebase you'd want to use? I think you've been doing flash development longer than me, I'm still trying different things out. Smile My last flash game was an utter mess, code-wise. Trying to be cleaner with the one I'm working on, but it's only a matter of time before I figure out why I shouldn't have done things "this" way...

As for light weapons, light items, etc ... I'm thinking it would be good if we don't have a lot of weapons, like BluMess was saying (I think). We can just stick to the one rifle and code-wise just have two types of ammo for it--ethereal which never runs out, and physical which you can pick up when you're physical. Smile

Maybe it's getting to the point of needing to wiki all this stuff?
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by Vartagh on Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:01 am

If you need some code i can provide you basic platforms code in as2...
i do not know if i have something good with as3 !!!
Nice to meet you too...
we have to decide how much time to spent on this project.....
1 month project would be ok for me....
what do you think ?
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Re: NH's FIRST COLLAB!

Post by BluMess on Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:01 am

well I've been thinking that a level editor would make the coding far too complex - I tried doing an AS3 platformer a while back (It worked! But the camera screwed it up.) with a "foreach" loop - you would give us the code we copy onto frame 1 and we could design the levels in flash, giving different variables to each platform so the code knows what Edger can stand on.

Great storyline, one of us should narrate it Smile

And yes I CAN animate but I'm not the best either.

Yeah I thought ethereal and physical states just tweaked the gameplay a bit - as you go on playing the tweaks become more significant. Perhaps you have less health in ethereal and more in physical, things like that. And effects wise I'm sure a bit of tinting and alpha changing will do the trick Smile
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